hoboX10

((If this is thw wrong forum, please just move the thread))

Does Naruto himself yet know that he is the son of the Fourth Hokage?

-Just wondering...

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Satsu

Nope, he hasn't figured it out yet.
Might be some hell to pay when he does find out though.

Afterall, Kakashi tended to favour Sasuke when it came to training, meanwhile it was Minato Namikaze aka Yondaime Hokage who was Naruto's father, who trained Kakashi. Considering the latter's death it would've been up to Kakashi to train Naruto in the techniques that Minato favoured and which he knew (like Rasengan).

For Jiraiya to have taken up that mantle is rather unusual from a Martial Arts perspective. A proper order would've been learn everything that Kakashi knows of Yondaime's techniques and once that is done, and taken into consideration that the latter would not have taught everything (because certain techniques are meant to be passed on only within the family, unless there is no heir), then you go to the one who taught Yondaime.

Most of that seemed to have been skipped really. I can understand that Kakashi had an easier time dealing with Sasuke, because both are of the genius-type. And that Naruto is annoying enough, that often you want to strangle him. Doesn't change the fact that there is a giri debt involved. And while giri might not be that much of a driving force for a ninja, they are well aware of the concept, what it means and that it's proper to abide by it.

Reaper

But I read somewhere that Jiraiya is the godfather of Naruto and that he is the one who trained Yodaime. So I don't think it is wrong of kakashi for not training Naruto + Kakashi's fighting style is way different from naruto's (except for the taijutstu and one or 2 ninjutsu techniques).

(PS: I never read the manga, I only follow the anime show. So forgive me if I don't know what already has happened in the manga :p)

Satsu

No, you are correct. Jiraiya is Naruto's godfather.

But when you consider how often the latter is/was absent from Konoha. Well.. The giri bit still remains standing. Instead he tried to saddle Naruto with Ebisu, and it was sheer happenstance that Jiraiya and Naruto met. I mean, even Anko would've been a better choice than Ebisu, considering how similar in temperament she is to Naruto (both don't like to lose, love eating, hot headed). Would've been a good lesson to both.

And you have a point with the styles. However, Kakashi did know Rasengan, as that was the starting point from which he developed Chidori. He was also aware of Yondaime's Flying Thunder God technique (his promotion present to Jonin was a kunai with a tag on it, which would allow Yondaime to teleport to him in case of need) and he could've (considering they were in the midst of a war at the time) witnessed how it was performed with his Sharingan (which he received in the midst of that war). Which also brings up the fact that Kakashi supposedly knows 1000 or more techniques. Surely, some would've been suitable to Naruto's more brawling style?

Maybe it has to do with Kakashi's sense of guilt towards Obito, that he favoured Sasuke. Which is somewhat amusing, considering how similar in temperament he was with Sasuke and how similar Obito was with Naruto at their respective ages. (Same type of dynamique as team 7. Obito loved Rin, who loved Kakashi, who didn't want anything to do with her, because he found her annoying.)

And of course, let's not forget that emotions are involved. Naruto isn't going to be happy about the fact that Kakashi knew his father and never told him about it. Could break the trust he has in Kakashi, fairly important thing to hide from an orphan, who knows nearly nothing of his parents.

hoboX10

So do you think Naruto will ever learn the Flying Thunder God technique?

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-Obey. I command you. Saikyo Fansubs

TsukuyomiKakashi

I don't think Naruto would hate Kakashi for something like that. And the main reason Kakashi didn't train naruto in my opinion, is he has really slouched since his Anbu days. If he where to keep up the same level of training, he could very well be on sanin level, and possible hokage right now.

Jiraiya was a much better choice. He was stronger then Kakashi, mastered the rasengan, when Kakashi had only grasped the low level of it. Kakashi related a lot more to sasuke has stated. He had a sharingan, could teach Sasuke how to use it, and both are technically geniuses, as Kakashi( according to Naruto in shippuden ) is even smarter then Shikamaru.

Back to Naruto hating Kakashi for not telling him Yondaime was his father, I find it understandable. At Naruto's young age, I don't think he would have been able to handle that. Now he possibly can, and Jiraiya would have in my opinion.

hoboX10

And about the technique?

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TsukuyomiKakashi

There is no one to teach him it. Kakashi doesn't know it( as far as I know ), so that rules out any way he can learn it.

Satsu

Good question.. He might have to, if he's ever going to beat Sasuke. Problem is, who can teach him the technique, considering that .

And seeing how reluctant Kakashi seems to be with teaching Naruto. That is of course working under the presumption that said technique hasn't been lost to the ages, due to Yondaime's death.



I'm not so sure about that. Naruto is a hot head afterall (and keep in mind for how long Naruto has known Kakashi.. It would be a regular.. Ok, so we've known each other for 5(?) years now.. And it only occurs to you to tell me about my father now??)

He also has a hard time dealing with betrayal. Mizuki is one such an example, his fight with Sasuke is another. His dealings with Kabuto. (And this can be considered a betrayal of trust, unless Kakashi manages to word it just perfectly, don't think he'll be able to pull that off to be honest. He's not used to dealing with issues like this, he tries to avoid them like the plague.)

And when one considers Naruto's current emotional state.. Eh... Won't be a very pretty event either way. (hormones + temper + demon fox = boom)


Even if he slowed down, he still had plenty to teach. I see it more of a doesn't want to teach as opposed to cannot teach..

Also still doesn't change the fact that he tried to saddle him with Ebisu... Ebisu.. The guy hated Naruto's guts, it was only through their interaction that he mellowed and only because he saw that Naruto was a positive influence on Konohamaru. You don't stick someone with a teacher who hates them, especially not if they're going to be facing the type of competition that Naruto had ahead of him during the Chunin exams.

Like I said, even Anko would've been a better choice. Or maybe Kurenai to help strengthen him against genjutsu (against which Naruto tends to perform dreadfully). Lot of possible candidates, yet he picked someone who hated Naruto's guts. *shakes head*

Sheer luck that they came across Jiraiya and that Naruto managed to convince the old coot to train him. (course, it also costs Naruto so much money, that he could've built himself a nice little nestegg for when he eventually gets hitched.)


The latter info of being smarter could be a small case of idol worship on Naruto's part. It wasn't until Yamato fed him, that he took a liking to the man, because he didn't seem to be measuring up to Kakashi in his eyes.

Also I'm not saying that Kakashi wasn't suited to teach Sasuke, he was.. Similar backgrounds, somewhat similar temperaments etc etc. Just that there was another honour debt to be paid as well..

He owed Obito a debt for turning his back on Obito and Rin, leading to the death of Obito. But he also owed his sensei a debt as well.. And he never paid that off, on the contrary he tried to censure Jiraiya for teaching Naruto the Rasengan. Unfortunately for him, Jiraiya a) doesn't/didn't care, b) could turn the tables due to the teaching of Chidori to Sasuke, meaning the old pot kettle argument.

Even if he had merely tried to have Jiraiya found for Naruto, (whether it be for training for the Chunin exam or even as soon as Naruto became a member of his squad), then at least it could be seen as him honouring the debt he owed to Yondaime.

Don't get me wrong, I rather like Kakashi as a character, I just happen to think that he made some poor decisions when it pertains to Naruto.

Although I do have to add that..

David

Well, Naruto hasn't really found out, yet. After Kakashi and everyone else learns that Jiraiya died, I think that Tsunade or someone else might go on and tell him. But as of right now, he has no idea.

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TsukuyomiKakashi

I'm tired of using the spoiler tag quite honestly, it makes me type more then needed, so if you aren't up to date/don't like spoilers, please don't read the following post.

Satsu, what could have Kakashi really have taught Naruto? No, I don't agree with him sticking him with Ebisu or totally turning his back on him training, but really, there is not much he could have taught him. Naruto uses shadow clones( for the most part ) for his techniques. Kakashi hardly ever uses shadow clones. He doesn't use rasengan, even though Naruto wanted to learn the chidori.

But would it have been possible for Naruto to have learned the chidori? Lightning isn't one of his elements. Now that Jiraiya has died, and I don't think Naruto's training has been completed, what will happen? Either someone is gonna come out of nowhere and do it( maybe the 4th is by some slim chance still alive, you never know ), Naruto might be screwed. But we dunno where this madara fight is going, so we'll have to wait for its end first.

Benawolnow

No, I don't think he figured it out yet?

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"Humans make mistakes and those mistakes are what makes us humans, humans." Luckyly I make tons of mistakes which means I'm more human then you!

Satsu

Points well made.. But consider Kakashi's reputation. The Copy Ninja. The Ninja who is known to have copied and learned over a 1000 techniques. Let us say that is is war propaganda and thus over-inflated. Let us half that amount.. That's still well over 500 techniques and even if it were just 100, he's only shown about 20 techniques in total (not counting the sharingan related ones). There's bound to have been a few in there that Naruto could've learned.

Shadow of the Dancing Leaf? C-rank move, Taijutsu?
Hidden Mist Technique? D-rank move, Ninjutsu?
Demonic Illusion: Hell Viewing Technique? D-rank move, Genjutsu?

How about learning to summon Pakkun?

Those are about 4 of the known techniques that Kakashi has that he could've taught Naruto. If he were to know 100 techniques or even 500, then there would've been even more options.

As for who could teach Naruto further (not counting ye old scarecrow).. Two options, both long shots..

a) His mother, she is currently presumed deceased, we have no confirmation of this though. And apparently temperament wise and technique wise Naruto takes after her as opposed to his old man.

b) Possibly the ghost of his father.. Think back to Orochimaru's fight with the Third. He tried to summon three caskets, each containing the body of one of the other Hokages. The last casket, carrying Yondaime was blocked by the Third.

In order to pull off this technique, Orochimaru had to imbue the bodies with the souls of the deceased warriors. Problem is, Yondaime's soul is supposed to be lost within the Death God. Afterall, that's what he used on the Demon Fox during the sealing process. The Yang went inside of Naruto, the Yin was locked away within the Death God and in order to seal something away, you need to sacrifice your own soul to do so.

So how was Orochimaru capable of summoning the soul of Yondaime for the last casket?

Point on the Madara fight, Naruto might not even make it out of that fight alive. And the show/manga could then be retitled Sasuke, who seems to be getting most of the attention anyway. Or maybe they'll kill off Naruto, have him learn his skills in the afterlife and then be rezzed again. Not without precedent afterall..

TsukuyomiKakashi

I just lost all of my post, gotta type it again XD.

Which of those techniques would be useful? Demonic Illusion = Canceled by anyone higher then low genin level. Hidden Mist wouldn't be a bad technique, but he isn't anything like Zabuza, and hasn't trained in it, nor can he feel people's chakra and attack them. It'd just blind himself.

Summoning the nin-dogs would be nice. I think Kakashi will pass that on sometime if they have any plan for him to die.( I wouldn't be suprised if he died fighting Madara, as he said he'd never let any of his teammates die, which there is a high chance Madara will try to kill some of them off.

His mother is dead in my opinion, or at least some of her would have been seen now. The ghost of Yondaime training him? How would that be possible. Only Orochimaru can summon the dead( at least that we know of so far ).

And ha, yeah, Sasuke/Itachi have gotten too much attention, I wanna see the madara fight.

Satsu

Maybe. Keep in mind that in order to cancel a genjutsu that there are two options: The first option is for the ninja to stop the flow of chakra in their body, and then apply an even stronger power to disrupt the flow of the casters chakra. The second option is to have an outside ninja unaffected by the Genjutsu make body contact, and use their chakra to disrupt the casters flow.

Considering that Naruto has close to no limit on his chakra level.. How are you going to overcome it then with an even higher amount? It would all depend upon how much chakra he puts into the attack.

Afterall.. These types of attacks use up a high amount of chakra and need perfect hand seals. Because of this they're most often used by a fighter with very high amounts of chakra or as a last resort. And as Jiraiya pointed out, considering his chakra reserves Naruto is better off with the brute force approach and simply paying the Chakra cost that his inefficiency with chakra control brings along. So he'd be well suited for such a technique.

And as for Sakura breaking through that technique, have to keep in mind that she has excellent chakra control, thus making it easier for her to pull of such feats (especially now that she's been trained by Tsunade). Plus, the fear used was one she'd already gotten over, making it not nearly as potent as it could've been.

Think outside of the box. Large group of enemy ninja's is chasing after him and his team, they're on an escort mission. Enemy skill level is similar to that of the Sound Four.. While Naruto's natural instinct is to fight, he also knows that if he gets into a fight, there's a high chance that their vip will get hurt/killed.

Use the fog to blind the chase team, and have one half of the team take another route. Meanwhile what's left set up an ambush. It's no different from what Shikamaru did to the sound chase team during the Sasuke retrieval arc.

Considering his current maturity level, I do deem it likely that he can come up with such a scenario.

And if he were to die, then he can't pass on the knowledge anymotr.
But seriously, Pakkun is roughly the same size as those frogs that Naruto normally summons, at worst it's the equivalent to summoning both Gamakichi and Gamatatsu. And Naruto has done the latter, so summoning just Pakkun should be something that he can pull off.

Reason why I only mention Pakkun is because of his intelligence and speech factor. The other dogs might not understand what Naruto wants. Pakkun can figure it out and point out if it's possible or not. Plus, they seem to get along, which is also rather handy.

And as I pointed out, in total we've seen 23 techniques by Kakashi, 3 of which are purely sharingan based. He's bound to know more, even if it were just taijutsu skills. Then Naruto would benefit from it.

Pein/Pain whatever his name is, in all of his bodies.. Lot of them were presumed dead as well. I find it highly odd that they never mentioned what she died from either. I mean, a simple died from childbirth would've been enough really. But no mention what so ever?? Something doesn't smell right.

As for the ghost thing, who knows how they're going to pull that off.. Again, it's just something that doesn't seem to fit. If the soul is locked away, then Ororchimaru couldn't have summoned it, yet he wanted to sic the other Hokages after the Third, and three caskets did appear and three Hokages were dead at the time. Could be a plothole I suppose.

I'm also wondering if Sasuke couldn't employ that forbidden technique as well.. Considering how close he and Ororchimaru were. Still wouldn't resolve the spirit teaching Naruto thing, but you get my general point I hope.


Just seen 392, looks like 393 will